Obama Fan Club Thread

[Dalton]

Honestly I wish he HAD vetoed it even though he knew he'd be overridden, just on principle.  But even if he signed it, I feel the onus is on congress far more than Obama himself.

I don't think it is a given at all that it would have been overwritten.  You expect congress to do that shit, it's a given.  But Obama campaigned directly and fervently against those Bush administration policies so we put him there to stop them, and has now made them the law of the land.  Any President who has "Serious reservations" about a bill ought not to sign it.

[Dalton]

http://www.amnestyusa.org/news/press-releases/trust-me-is-not-enough-of-a-safeguard-says-amnesty-international-as-president-obama-signs-the-ndaa-i

Give money to the ACLU

[ExpendablesFan]

I don't think it is a given at all that it would have been overwritten.  You expect congress to do that shit, it's a given.  But Obama campaigned directly and fervently against those Bush administration policies so we put him there to stop them, and has now made them the law of the land.  Any President who has "Serious reservations" about a bill ought not to sign it.

93 senators voted for the bill. They'd only need 67 to override a veto. It's a DEFENSE bill. No Democrat with a brain in his head is going to vote against it as a favor to Obama. This language should of never been in it. Which is why Obama tried to get rid of it and got overruled by a huge majority. He isn't King Obama.

[Dalton]

93 senators voted for the bill. They'd only need 67 to override a veto. It's a DEFENSE bill. No Democrat with a brain in his head is going to vote against it as a favor to Obama. This language should of never been in it. Which is why Obama tried to get rid of it and got overruled by a huge majority. He isn't King Obama.

Vetoed bills very rarely get overridden.  They could have picked this battle, rallied the Democrats in the senate and congress and fought it.  He chose to just sign it.  He should have fought against this one.  He took the easy way out.  As usual.

[Dalton]

"Once any government has the authority to hold people indefinitely, the risk is that it can be almost impossible to rein such power in. President Obama has failed to take the one action – a veto – that would have blocked the dangerous provisions in the NDAA. In so doing, he has allowed human rights to be further undermined and given Al Qaeda a propaganda victory."

[ExpendablesFan]

Vetoed bills very rarely get overridden.  They could have picked this battle, rallied the Democrats in the senate and congress and fought it.  He chose to just sign it.  He should have fought against this one.  He took the easy way out.  As usual.

They knew they didn't have the votes though. They don't operate in a vacuum. Making democrats vote against a defense bill would have been insanely dumb and they wouldn't do it regardless. Obama can't "make" anyone do anything that isn't in their own self interest. He takes the smartest option out of two bad choices, every time. Gets zero credit for it, every time. I'm voting Republican just to give this guy some relief from idiots, he deserves it.

[Dalton]

They knew they didn't have the votes though. They don't operate in a vacuum. Making democrats vote against a defense bill would have been insanely dumb and they wouldn't do it regardless. Obama can't "make" anyone do anything that isn't in their own self interest. He takes the smartest option out of two bad choices, every time. Gets zero credit for it, every time. I'm voting Republican just to give this guy some relief from idiots, he deserves it.

You're looking at it all wrong.  Obama could have gotten the Democrats in the Senate and congress in line and told them he was going to veto unless that language was taken out. I seriously doubt they would have overridden in that case, but even if they were going to have vetoed anyway (though I'm positive they would have let the veto stand). 

Call names all you want to make yourself feel somehow superior, but Obama was absolutely wrong in this case.

[sean]

Obama could have gotten the Democrats in the Senate and congress in line and told them he was going to veto unless that language was taken out.

Wasn't the 93-7 vote after he went to them and said exactly that?

[ExpendablesFan]

Obama could have gotten the Democrats in the Senate and congress in line and told them he was going to veto unless that language was taken out.

He literally did this for the last two months straight. They said to fuck off for obvious reasons, one of which was THEY CO-WROTE IT. It was a bi-partisan bill. Obama was the only person in Washington who had a problem with it. FUCK HIM!

[LpF]

I was gonna offer a rebuttal, but Jordy and sean said it better anyway.

[Dalton]

Wasn't the 93-7 vote after he went to them and said exactly that?

He should have stood firm on getting that language out.  If the Democrats weren't budging he should have vetoed it anyway and let them override it and explain to their constituents why they allowed the language to remain.  And I don't think they would have overridden.  That happens to a very small percentage of vetoes.  No, he doesn't work in a vacuum, but the buck (should) stop in the Oval Office.  Matty Damon is right about him.

Plus it gives idiot conspiracy theorists fodder for their insane ideas about concentration camps in America.

Jon Stewart was great on it tonight.

[ExpendablesFan]

You're putting a lot of trust into people to understand what Obama would have been doing. Something I don't think is realistic. People don't pay attention or care enough to assign blame properly to guilty parties. I mean look at this thread. You aren't even doing it right.

I wonder what the biggest majority vote was that has ever been vetoed. My guess it isn't anywhere close to 93-7. People would have flipped their lids.

[Dalton]

Listen I see what you're saying but I think on some issues, politics, whether or not it's and election year, shouldn't enter into it.  One of the things that was so great about Reagan was the he vetoed 78 bills on principle.  He got 9 of them overridden but I doubt he cared.  I want that kind of thing from Obama on SOME issue.  This would have been a good one.

That is all.

[LpF]

There's a very good chance that standing on principle would have fucked him ultimately.  I can't say I'm not disappointed, but I understand him wanting to be a two-term president instead of a Profile in Courage.  In your second term, as Chris Rock put it, you can do your gangsta shit.

[Dobbin]

I agree totally with Dalton. The reason why no one took his veto threat seriously was that he caves. If he vetoed it, the reason for the veto would be news. If he said, "This is a DEFENSE bill, I want a clean one that I can sign. If you want indefinite detention and to turn America into Soviet-Era Russia, put that in its own bill and try to get it through. And as long as I'm president, I'll veto that too," he would have changed the dynamic and narrative about him.

Look, I'm voting for the guy again, but it is because the alternatives are so poor. It doesn't mean he can't be wrong-- and fundamentally wrong. Don't kid yourself to think that the language is just posturing and it will never be used. Once there's a law, they'll use it.