A Song of Ice and Fire (spoilers for Game of Thrones)

[JCEFalconi]

I took Jordy's suggestion of starting a thread about the books, since you guys are totally going to read them and not wait six months to wonder how Tyrion will do as Hand.

Halfway through A Feast of Crows, it's a bold choice to not put most of the most interesting main characters in the book, it also makes it a tougher read since I don't realle care about Dorne and all that stuff.

[Steve B]

Halfway through A Feast of Crows, it's a bold choice to not put most of the most interesting main characters in the book, it also makes it a tougher read since I don't realle care about Dorne and all that stuff.

I agree, but it will make the new book much better since it's going to have all the good characters in that one without any of the Dorne stuff.

I just started to reread them from the beginning.  As I read an "episodes worth I'm re-watching that episode.

[Raikus]

Same here. I'm over half way through with Feast and find the non-name chapter titles annoying. I spend the first handful of pages trying to figure out who they are all over again. Forget about the Iron Men and the Sand Snakes. I want some epilogue of the 3rd book info (don't want to spoil anything for those that haven't read that far)!

[JCEFalconi]

Everytime I see Theon I just get sad for him. Pike is so interesting and crazy. Every little detail is in there, the salt stained coats, everything.

Joffrey's wedding feast will be something to see, I'm guessing people will feel bad even if we've all wishing he gets his commeupance since he got that butcher's boy killed.

[Steve B]

Everytime I see Theon I just get sad for him. Pike is so interesting and crazy. Every little detail is in there, the salt stained coats, everything.

That actor is going to do an outstanding job as Reek.  I can't wait.

[JCEFalconi]

That actor is going to do an outstanding job as Reek.  I can't wait.

That "YOUR ONLY BOY" scene was great.

the show is so good it makes me understand the books better, first I thought he may've been you know what on his you know which, but now it's almost a certainty, poor lad.

[Chris G]

I was really expecting that Arya was going to kill Joffrey. Amazing how wrong I was on that one. Someone else had to point out to me that the thing that kills Joffrey was the same poison used by Maester Cressan.

Okay, who do you think is Jon's mother? I had my suspicions from book 1 and they agreed with a very popular theory on a fan board.

[katy]

SPECULATION

I'm definitely a subscriber to the theory that Jon's mother is Lyanna Baratheon.  It's more clearly alluded to in the books.  I can only see it being someone else if the author decides to write it another way deliberately just to defy what a large chunk of the fans think.

[Steve B]

Okay, who do you think is Jon's mother? I had my suspicions from book 1 and they agreed with a very popular theory on a fan board.

He is the son of Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark.  (making him Denereys half brother, the titular "Ice" to Denereys "Fire").  Eddard is too noble an honorable to have a bastard (and he always looked down of Robert for fathering them).  Lyanna was "taken" by (really ran off with him) Rhaegar.  Ned went to "rescue" her.  And found her "dying in a bed of blood".  
He then came home with a baby, her baby, and said it was his because Robert would surly kill the love child of his true love and his enemy.

[Steve B]

I'm definitely a subscriber to the theory that Jon's mother is Lyanna Baratheon. 

She was betrothed but never married to Robert.  She died a Stark.

[katy]

My bad; I meant Stark.  Though I think Robert B. is Jon's dad, not Rhaegar.

The above is your speculation, not what's actually confirmed in the books, right?  I'm only through book 2 (but I do not care about being spoiled).

[Steve B]

My bad; I meant Stark.  Though I think Robert B. is Jon's dad, not Rhaegar.

I don't think the timeline allows for Robert the be his father.  And what would be the reason for Ned to "take credit" for him?

The above is your speculation, not what's actually confirmed in the books, right?  I'm only through book 2 (but I do not care about being spoiled).

Yes.  Someone told me this theory right before I reread the first book.  Knowing that, it's pretty laid out in that first book IMO.  And it makes a lot of sense out of the "Song of Ice and Fire" title.

[katy]

I know it makes more sense for it to be Rhaegar, but I dunno.  I just have this very strong feeling that it's Robert.  It's not unthinkable that him & Lyanna got it on.  It's also possible that Ned didn't know who the father was, or that Lyanna had other reasons for wanting him to keep it secret.

Also, I always figured Jon & Danaerys would get together in the end and unite all the factions.  That would be ice + fire, but if he's her half-brother, it's just fire + fire.  However, I could be biased in that this is what I WANT to happen based upon sheer beauty.

Granted, we could all be totally wrong about all of this.

[Chris G]

katy, nothing's been confirmed yet.

Rhaegar seems more likely as I don't think Robert ever slept with Lyanna. Most of the supporting evidence comes from the first book, the biggest things being the Kingsguard's presence at the Tower of Joy and that the Targareyans used to practice polygamy (well polygyny anyway) and that Elia, Rhaegar's wife couldn't bear any more children. If you think about it, the remaining Kingsguard should have been heading for Dragonstone to protect Viserys and Daenerys. If they weren't, it suggests that someone with a stronger claim to the throne was present at the Tower of Joy.

There's also a story in Storm of Swords called "Knight of the Laughing Tree" that bears very careful reading. There's a few things sewn in there that hint at a Rhaegar and Lyanna affair prior to the Rebellion.

[Chris G]

I know it makes more sense for it to be Rhaegar, but I dunno.  I just have this very strong feeling that it's Robert.  It's not unthinkable that him & Lyanna got it on.  It's also possible that Ned didn't know who the father was, or that Lyanna had other reasons for wanting him to keep it secret.

Well sure, but i think one of the reasons that Robert loved Lyanna so much was that he never got to sleep with her. She certainly doesn't seem to have been that enamoured with him, from what she said to Ned.

Also, given Robert's utter hatred of Rhaegar and the murder of Rhaenys and Aegon by the Hound and Armory Loch, that would provide another reason for Ned to keep Jon's parentage a secret. The reason why he decides to warn Cersei ahead of telling Robert is that he couldn't bear the thought of Joffrey, Tommen and Myrcella being killed.

Granted, we could all be totally wrong about all of this.

Oh certainly. It could well be that he is Ned Stark's bastard after all and we're just seeing what we want to see. Rhaegar just seems like the best fit.