Rutgers spy cam suicide

[katy]

Now he'll go to Jail and do a bunch of volunteer hard work (which must be hell for someone who'se never done anything for anybody in his life).

*wank*

Oh, the kid's gotta do something good for society for once in his spoiled life.  My heart cries.  He should have been doing that on his own for the last two years so that somebody would have something good to say about him in court, instead of moping around his house playing World of Warcraft and touching himself.

[Dalton]

I feel horrible for Tyler and his family.  It's heartbreaking that he was unable to talk about what was bothering him, and felt the need to take such a drastic and final step.  We don't know what went on in his household while he was growing up.

But Ravi is not responsible of Tyler's death.  Tyler's issues had to have gone way beyond having his privacy violated by some jackass.  Ravi's punishment is just.

[katy]

Let's get one thing clear:  nobody here, including me, said Ravi was responsible for Clementi's death.  I know I have personally said over and over again in this thread that he is not.  There's no stretch of the imagination under which he could be responsible.  I still think, for his specific crimes, 30 days is incredibly light. 

I might feel differently if he ever showed ANY remorse, but his yawning and sleeping in court sealed my disdain for him.  This dude is a waste.

[Dan]

His life is effectively ruined. His best bet at financial stability will be mooching off of his parents for the rest of his life. It's not like this is going to be stricken from his record, and even so, people will remember his name. I think the punishment goes well beyond the 30 days.

[katy]

His best bet at financial stability will be mooching off of his parents for the rest of his life.

Which I'm sure he had no intention of doing anyway...

Do you guys actually think 30 days (if he even ends up serving all of that, which I doubt) is going to teach him something?  I wish I thought this.  He seems pretty damn unredeemable to me.

[Dobbin]

So basically Josh is angry at people who commit suicide because it inconveniences him somehow.

Right. Because being glib and dismissive of a different emotional reaction to an extreme act is the best course of action.

[Dobbin]

I feel horrible for Tyler and his family.  It's heartbreaking that he was unable to talk about what was bothering him, and felt the need to take such a drastic and final step.  We don't know what went on in his household while he was growing up.

But Ravi is not responsible of Tyler's death.  Tyler's issues had to have gone way beyond having his privacy violated by some jackass.  Ravi's punishment is just.

I agree with everything said here.

[Dobbin]

*wank*

Oh, the kid's gotta do something good for society for once in his spoiled life.  My heart cries.  He should have been doing that on his own for the last two years so that somebody would have something good to say about him in court, instead of moping around his house playing World of Warcraft and touching himself.

Would you be more sympathetic if he killed himself?

[Dobbin]

But by definition it is the opposite of self-preservational; it is the ultimate act of self-destruction, so how can it be selfish?

Being selfish isn't about preservation exclusively. Destroying, or acting self-destructively in a lot of ways is very indulgent. Again, I'm not saying "This kid is the secret villain of the piece!"

It is literally sickening-- like, gut-ache, physical-pain sickening, to see pictures of a young boy growing up, playing with his brother, having a childhood-- and to know that life ended in such a way. But that doesn't exclude the notion of being self-obsessed and without care or concern of one's actions on others. I don't know how to say this without being misunderstood-- this whole scenario fills me with all kinds of sadness in almost every direction. I don't think throwing the book and wishing a lifetime of pain at the straw that broke the camel's back is helpful either, or adds much light to the world.

[katy]

Would you be more sympathetic if he killed himself?

Well, obviously -- I'm sympathetic with anyone who is so desperate or mentally fucked-up that they take their own life, assuming they don't take anybody else out with them -- but it's not required that someone kill themselves to earn my compassion.  

It'd be more to the point to say I'd be more sympathetic if he EVER said he was sorry, or showed any emotion, or seemed like he gave a damn about any of this.

He did cry when his mother spoke, but I think that is more to do with his relationship with his mother, which is clearly very complicated.

[katy]

Being selfish isn't about preservation exclusively. Destroying, or acting self-destructively in a lot of ways is very indulgent.

Sure, if you are talking about, like, snorting rails and stuff! 

But deliberately killing yourself is not "indulgent".  You can't possibly be arguing this.  How is it pleasurable?  How does it serve the person doing it?  What you are saying does not make any sense.

And anyway, it's kind of beside the point.  There is no point being angry at someone who has committed suicide.  You phrased it as, "they DON'T HAVE TO answer for this to the people they hurt".  I would suggest reframing it as, "they CAN'T answer for this", in the most literal sense.  There is nothing that can be done, you can't call them up and scream at them for being selfish.  They have already given themselves the ultimate punishment.  How can one punish them further?  It's not possible, so you are just harboring completely useless anger that is of no help to yourself or anyone else.

JMHO.  Really, your attitude towards this only hurts you, so it's not something I'm going to debate with you further, but I genuinely do wish for your own sake that you would reconsider it.

[Dan]

Which I'm sure he had no intention of doing anyway...

Do you guys actually think 30 days (if he even ends up serving all of that, which I doubt) is going to teach him something?  I wish I thought this.  He seems pretty damn unredeemable to me.

This is a more black and white point of view than anything Dobbin said. "I assume he would just leech off of his parents for life, and he did a dickish thing as a college freshman, so throw the book at him..."

[BrianLynch]

Yeah, let's please not be black and white about this guy, he's been through enough.

[katy]

To say "I wish I thought what I assume to be true, is not true" is pretty much the definition of allowing for a grey area, I think. 

[Hawkboy]

Yes, when did this turn into the "Poor Dharun Ravi, getting stuck with the wuss roomate who offed himself" thread?