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Dalton
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« Reply #30 on: February 08, 2010, 01:15:24 AM » |
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I'll get over it once these geezers are put out to pasture in a few years. The ad wasn't very funny regardless. Although I'm sure my grandparents thought it was a hoot.
Conan O' Bye Bye is going to be 48 this year. At what age will be no longer be funny? |
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ExpendablesFan
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« Reply #31 on: February 08, 2010, 01:23:06 AM » |
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I agree. I can't watch Letterman. But the whole thing was all basically for show.
Conan couldn't cut it in the ratings against Letterman. Who cares? He got 45 million for his troubles and will most likely wind up on cable where you can watch him every night. I'm not gonna hold a grudge against millionaires on TV.
Saying Conan couldn't cut it against Letterman is just dumb given Conan's circumstances. First Conan had been on The Tonight Show timeslot for 7 months, Letterman for years. Letterman is on the highest rated network with great lead ins. Conan's drop in Tonight Show ratings was similar to drops in Local News ratings due to Leno's lead in. I know you know this, so I guess I'm curious why you are saying otherwise. Stoking board fights again are we? |
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Dalton
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« Reply #32 on: February 08, 2010, 01:36:05 AM » |
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Saying Conan couldn't cut it against Letterman is just dumb given Conan's circumstances. First Conan had been on The Tonight Show timeslot for 7 months, Letterman for years. Letterman is on the highest rated network with great lead ins. Conan's drop in Tonight Show ratings was similar to drops in Local News ratings due to Leno's lead in. I know you know this, so I guess I'm curious why you are saying otherwise. Stoking board fights again are we?
I've maintained that I think things in television have changed drastically and that no one other than Leno and Letterman (who people are just comfortable with) will be able to amass close to 5 million viewers anymore in the fragmented world of television. I know O' Bye Bye was hurt by his lead in but still 2.5 million is pretty damn low. The fact remains, due to a variety of factors he couldn't compete against Letterman. I've also said that given the choice I would always watch O'Bye Bye over Leno, Letterman or Kimmel, but I never watched any of them and neither did most of the people complaining about Conan's ouster. I was amused by this little ad, and I suspect people who were angered over it are carrying a grudge on behalf of a guy who got 45 million dollars to go away and is able to start a new show where ever he wants come September. I'm seeing it objectively. Your "you're a robot" comment makes sense. You are very emotional over this topic. |
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ExpendablesFan
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« Reply #33 on: February 08, 2010, 01:56:39 AM » |
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Conan O'Bye Bye?
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Dalton
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« Reply #34 on: February 08, 2010, 02:11:39 AM » |
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Conan O'Bye Bye?
Conan came into the Stern show once time in 1995, and the Jackie puppet (played by Billy West) harassed him about having his show cancelled. One of the things he did was call him "Conan O'Bye Bye". But of course Conan had the last laugh on that one. Conan O'Brien w/ Billy West on Howard Stern - Part 1 of 4 |
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DerickA
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« Reply #35 on: February 08, 2010, 02:30:38 AM » |
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You guys are both awesome.
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LpF
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« Reply #36 on: February 08, 2010, 02:56:05 AM » |
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I've maintained that I think things in television have changed drastically and that no one other than Leno and Letterman (who people are just comfortable with) will be able to amass close to 5 million viewers anymore in the fragmented world of television. I know O' Bye Bye was hurt by his lead in but still 2.5 million is pretty damn low. The fact remains, due to a variety of factors he couldn't compete against Letterman. A variety of factors that were completely beyond his control: It's a fact that CBS shows average 12.2 million viewers a night at 10. Dave's ratings up until his November reruns week (this includes the scandal) were between 4.0 and 4.5, a loss of 60-70 percent or so. It's a fact that The Jay Leno Show averaged around 5 million viewers a night. Conan's ratings were, as you say, 2.5 million. A loss of fifty percent. So he was actually retaining a higher percentage of eyeballs than Dave, but from a significantly smaller group. Looking at the above facts, I'd say it was a mighty hard row to hoe for Conan. He wasn't just hurt by his lead-in, he was dealt a death blow. Why you're laying this at his feet, when virtually no one (not even Jay or Dave) could have done what he was expected to do under those circumstances, is somewhat baffling to me. I mean, what, you think Jay would've survived for longer than seven months back in the 90s if Johnny had a prime-time talk show at 10? |
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Dalton
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« Reply #37 on: February 08, 2010, 03:02:08 AM » |
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A variety of factors that were completely beyond his control: It's a fact that CBS shows average 12.2 million viewers a night at 10. Dave's ratings up until his November reruns week (this includes the scandal) were between 4.0 and 4.5, a loss of 60-70 percent or so. It's a fact that The Jay Leno Show averaged around 5 million viewers a night. Conan's ratings were, as you say, 2.5 million. A loss of fifty percent. So he was actually retaining a higher percentage of eyeballs than Dave, but from a significantly smaller group. Looking at the above facts, I'd say it was a mighty hard row to hoe for Conan. He wasn't just hurt by his lead-in, he was dealt a death blow. Why you're laying this at his feet, when virtually no one (not even Jay or Dave) could have done what he was expected to do under those circumstances, is somewhat baffling to me. I mean, what, you think Jay would've survived for longer than seven months back in the 90s if Johnny had a prime-time talk show at 10? The days of the big time talk show are over. Once Jay and Dave leave that will be it. That said, Conan wasn't a good fit for The Tonight Show. It's a dinosaur and NBC executives exerted too much control and wouldn't let Conan be Conan. He should have left NBC in 2004. And I'm not so sure that Conan will get much more than 2.5 million viewers wherever he goes. That is just the reality of television these days. |
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LpF
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« Reply #38 on: February 08, 2010, 03:08:10 AM » |
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The days of the big time talk show are over. Once Jay and Dave leave that will be it. That said, Conan wasn't a good fit for The Tonight Show. It's a dinosaur and NBC executives exerted too much control and wouldn't let Conan be Conan. He should have left NBC in 2004. And I'm not so sure that Conan will get much more than 2.5 million viewers wherever he goes. That is just the reality of television these days.
You bothered to quote me why? I mean, you didn't exactly address my points or answer my question. At all. He didn't leave NBC because he wanted "the dinosaur." And it's not like said terrible lizard hasn't gone through myriad changes in its long run, so I'm not sure why he couldn't have made it his own if given the chance. Speaking of, we'll never really know if he could've gotten more than 2.5, because the numbers just weren't there. To get ratings like Jay or Dave, he'd have to have retained virtually 100% of The Jay Leno Show's viewership, which is basically impossible, a thing no one could've done, not even Jay or Dave. We'll never know what he would've done if he had, say, a Law & Order as his lead-in, because he was never given that chance. |
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« Last Edit: February 08, 2010, 03:13:46 AM by LpF »
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Dalton
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« Reply #39 on: February 08, 2010, 04:01:38 AM » |
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You bothered to quote me why? I mean, you didn't exactly address my points or answer my question. At all.
He didn't leave NBC because he wanted "the dinosaur." And it's not like said terrible lizard hasn't gone through myriad changes in its long run, so I'm not sure why he couldn't have made it his own if given the chance. Speaking of, we'll never really know if he could've gotten more than 2.5, because the numbers just weren't there. To get ratings like Jay or Dave, he'd have to have retained virtually 100% of The Jay Leno Show's viewership, which is basically impossible, a thing no one could've done, not even Jay or Dave. We'll never know what he would've done if he had, say, a Law & Order as his lead-in, because he was never given that chance.
What I said was that for a variety of reasons Conan wasn't able to compete against David Letterman. Nothing you said contradicts this statement. I think his agent/manager made a terrible decision when they decided to wait 5 years to take over The Tonight Show. They could have left in 2004 and by now whatever show Conan started back then would be firmly established. Given Jay Leno and NBC's history with this sort of thing, and the unpredictability of television, they were asking for trouble. Saying that Conan won't be able to amass more than 2.5 million viewers is no knock on him. Leno and Letterman do "well" because both have hit upon a safe, pretty milquetoast formula that has broad appeal. I don't think Conan has any interest in doing that, which is why I think he should go to some cable channel and do exactly the show he wants to do. That I would tune in for. |
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ScottE
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« Reply #40 on: February 08, 2010, 07:38:35 AM » |
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Yeah the sketches are really forced, but the thing that really keeps me from watching is that the audience no longer laughs at jokes- they applaud and cheer. I don't know but I suspect someone is hitting the applause sign after each punch line.
Having been to two Letterman tapings, I can tell you this is correct. Before you go in they have a staffer give a speech about what your job as an audience member is, and they want people to give big reactions and clap and cheer at everything. |
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LpF
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« Reply #41 on: February 08, 2010, 08:36:43 AM » |
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Saying that Conan won't be able to amass more than 2.5 million viewers is no knock on him. Leno and Letterman do "well" because both have hit upon a safe, pretty milquetoast formula that has broad appeal. But that's not why Conan couldn't amass more than 2.5 million. That's my whole point. He never got a chance to try and build an audience. His Tonight Show, as it was, could've pulled in numbers that competed with Dave's Late Show--as I proved, he was actually retaining a greater percentage of audience than Dave was. But we'll never know for sure because The Jay Leno Show gave him less than half the audience to draw from that Dave got from CSI et al. |
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Hawkboy
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« Reply #42 on: February 08, 2010, 08:41:59 AM » |
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For all the talk about Leno being a shitty lead-in, what's his lead-in going to be over on Fox? On my local Fox affiliate, it's a Seinfeld rerun. Now I know most of us would rather watch that than Leno (unless it's from the last season of Seinfeld, in which case it's a toss-up), but I don't see how that's an improvement.
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LpF
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« Reply #43 on: February 08, 2010, 08:44:56 AM » |
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For all the talk about Leno being a shitty lead-in, what's his lead-in going to be over on Fox? On my local Fox affiliate, it's a Seinfeld rerun. Now I know most of us would rather watch that than Leno (unless it's from the last season of Seinfeld, in which case it's a toss-up), but I don't see how that's an improvement.
Wouldn't it go prime-time 9pm show (i.e. 24), 10pm news, 11pm late night talk show? |
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Hawkboy
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« Reply #44 on: February 08, 2010, 08:48:50 AM » |
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Wouldn't it go prime-time 9pm show (i.e. 24), 10pm news, 11pm late night talk show?
Does Fox have an hour-long nightly newscast? CBS, NBC, ABC all only have half-hours, right? (Well, ABC has local news and then Nightline, I think) |
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